Many say that deadlifts will wreck your back.... True, if you do them wrong.
Many say dips will wreck your shoulders.... True, if you do them wrong.
I find that Deads work best for me when I rarely, if ever max out, instead, performing sets of 2 - 5 reps per set so it forces me to keep a lighter weight.
I also use what's called "submax" effort, in essence, I do NOT KILL myself on the deadlift, I leave 1 or 2 or even 3 reps in the tank. I still remember, from age 13, sitting on the floor of a book store in Israel reading Arnold's Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding.
I sat on the floor ALL morning, reading every page, inspired by every black & white photo, until it was "siesta" time and the book store closed. What do I REALLY remember from that very day, 22 years ago?
Arnold spoke about deadlifts and he never said do 5 x 5, or 8 x 3 or 10 x1.....
Nope. He said "Do a couple sets of a couple reps with heavy weight".... That about sums up how I treat the deadlift, regardless of whether or not I use the barbell, trap bar or every now and again some crazy variation as show in this video to shock my body from unique angles.
What about Dips? Do they REALLY wreck your shoulders? Yes, they will wreck your shoulders, if you....
- Perform them too often
- Bounce in the bottom position
- Do not tuck your elbows and constantly allow them to flare out (you want to try and make your thumbs externally rotate, forcing the pit of your elbows / biceps to face forward)
- Your mechanics might suck
NO, they won't wreck your shoulders when performed properly and in moderation....
Then again, about that moderation thing....
Some athletes can get away with doing TONS of dips, almost daily with NO adverse effects. It will depend on the individual, as some have poor mechanics or LOTS of natural internal rotation of the shoulders which starts to wreak havoc on the pec, shoulders and upper back.
Ironically, the bodybuilders from the 70's (aka The Golden Era) and prior did TONS of dips and never were they looking for shoulder rehab / prehab techniques. Could it be our era, of always sitting on our asses, in front of computers? Hmmmmm.......
Deadlifts and dips, two of the most effective movements I have ever used since the age of 13, dating back to 1989 when I first began lifting. But, when overused and abused, they quickly can become your enemy. Learn to use these two exercises optimally and effectively, not always maximally.
Use various bars for your dips as well as rings. For the deadlift, use the straight bar AND the trap bar, test drive pulling from different positions such as from a deficit, with chains, bands and from the rack or blocks. Find what works for you, as not everything works the same for everyone.
Question for You: What are your experiences with deadlifts and dips? Drop a comment or question below, looking forward to learning and helping.
Live The Code 365
--Z--
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23 Responses
In my non-expert and non-humble opinion…
1. People who say the deadlift is bad for the back are a powerful magnet: too heavily attracted to huge piles of iron.
2. People who say that dips are bad do them wrong.
I found some springs at home depot for a porch swing that I hooked some rings to and I do dips off of those. Spread wider than shoulder width apart, they’re brutal!
As for deadlifts, I’m love doing them one-handed! I’m not sure why more people don’t do this.
I’ve only recently, in the last year or so, started doing deadlifts. I never tried them before because I knew that I wouldn’t be doing them right. All that changed after reading Mark Rippetoe’s Starting Strength. It was like a revelation as it pertains to bench press, press, deadlift and squat.
Through his descriptions, I was able to teach myself to deadlift properly. I’ve yet to injure myself while attempting the above-mentioned lifts. I know try to get friends and coworkers, who already work out, to get away from machines and try deadlifts, squats and presses.
For me, I love the deadlift. ALL shapes and forms. I personally believe that deadlifts are the reason why i have such a powerful base yet I do not squat. I was born with larger shoulder blades than normal i suppose. I cannot perform a barbell squat because I cannot grab ahold of the bar when it is resting on my traps. So, what did i do? I made the deadlift my thing so to speak. I can go on and on, but i believe the deadlift is truly the king of all movements and not the squat. Simply for one reason only (not because I cannot perform them) but because we deadlift on a daily basis. Or at least I did as a farmer/lumberjack when I was a kid and even currently at the steel mill. Never once did i ever came across a situation where I had to squat with a large weight on my back. So…i deadlifted my ass off and I am mighty good at it. I also include intense dragging/carrying. Now n then I do bodyweight squats. It works for me, I get stronger on a daily basis. I do not know why, but I always considered shouldering a keg or a barrel an advanced version of the deadlift. Food for thought.
More food for thought. I knew a pretty strong guy who also never squatted, but yet had some tree trunks for legs. As a youngster, i asked him why he didn’t squat. He said, “I work on the movements I do according to my job. I work on those movements harder and heavier. That way, my job becomes easier.” Thats pretty smart thinking. I will just say, not squatting never did me any harm and deadlifting did me plenty good. Im expecting to hear hateful responses. 🙂 haha.
Dips…I like dips (especially paired with chips. That was a joke, laugh.) I do not do them as much as I want because as you pointed out, when I do them too often, they wreck my shoulders. it could be due to my shoulder blades. Who knows. But the cool thing is i love pairing deadlifts and push-ups…now and then i get the urge to do the dips. When i am feeling it, i do it n rock it. If ur feeling the urge to do dips, I would say do them! 🙂
The dead lift was always a temptress for me. I used to do it high volume, lots of weight and it was a hit or miss if I messed up my back.
One thing that was a sure thing for a back tweak for me was doing dead lifts for time. It never failed, as I rushed to get a few more reps in my technique would erode and my back would be jacked up for the rest of the weekend.
So I no longer do them for time. The dead lift is to be treated like a hand gun. Powerful, and to be respected, but as soon as you don’t take it seriously and start messing around it turns around on you.
I’ve done dips for ages. Love ’em and I’ve been pretty injury free on them. Funny enough the only issue I have had with them is in the back. I didn’t pay attention to stabilizing my scapula and so my back would cave in when I did them. That’s a lessen I only needed to learn once.
I have not been doing many dips lately and should probably get back at it. I use to do weighted dips with a lot of weight hanging from me. It sure helped me increase my bench press and the size of my arms.
Deadlifts! I am hooked on deadlifts. A few years ago I use to avoid these like the plague. I loved doing squats but for some reason I avoided em. Not anymore. I do deadlifts at least once or twice each week if I am not doing heavy tire flips.
I’ve trained this one guy who was only able to dealift around 120 pounds. We trained for a month and then I loaded the bar and told him it was 140 pounds. I was actually 190 pounds and he pulled it off. So many people do not think they can do something until they are faced with it.
Deadlifts and dips, love em.
I enjoy/hate both deadlifts and dips. Enjoy the results and how I feel, but hate them while I perform them.
I very rarely pull from the floor a traditional deadlift because the strain on the quads and glutes trigger my hip flexors to tighten and out goes the back.
One arm deadlifts, trap bar, thick bar (over/under & over/over). A lot of partials with a 20 count hold at the top.
My ceiling is low so doing dips on a machine is tough on the mellon. The attachments for my rack suck, so I do them with the start position on my knees between a stack of cinder blocks. Then I start dipping without touching the floor.
It works! I add chains to increase the load.
Good Luck with the book!
I started doing deadlifts the last week and man, I’ve never felt so f*ckng powerful. In my firt attemp I got a 194 lbs rep and I am going to work my way to the 230. Although I have scoliosis, I got no problems in my back.
I am a huge fan of both. I agree maxin out everytime is hard on the body. I follow 5/3/1 an its been working GREAT for me!
I LOVE deadlifts and dips. i started working out half a year ago and started doing deadlifts and dips recently. i work out in my basement and i learned everything i know from the internet. im not too strong YET(i can do over 17 dip and deadlift 120kg) but i think my form is pretty good. i learned my deadlift form from your friend elliott hulse and with dips i sort oflearned by watching vids. i have genetically bad joints and marfan syndrome so i had back pains before i started lifting. and im not even a grown up, i just turned 16. but since i started working out i had no back pains and the only shoulder pain i got was from doing upright rows incorrectly.
As you said, it is very individual. Joints, tendons, range of motion, and sport goal. I was not a power lifter or bodybuilder, have a short legs and arms+long body, and never liked the deadlift. Felt uncomfortable always when doing it. Also know world class wrestlers who almost nnever did deadlift. Only scimilar movement was when we lifted a weight from ground for doing hang clean.
Dips, I like them, but without heavy weight, and doing full range of motion. Sorry, do not want to hurt anyone, but I always smile when see someone with lot of weight on his waist and doing dips, but only 1/3 of the full motion. Maybe it is OK for buiding muscle, but in sport you need strength from every angle and position.
Another point is periodization and overuse. I am old enough to remember some guys for years doint the same (heavy) movement almost every other day. Most of them had trouble with joints after 15-20 years. Do not personaly believe that human body was made for that. Also laugh when reading post that somebody is doing the same exercise for years, with max load. It is just not for everyone, maybe small percent of humans can do it without severe damage after years.
My current routine focuses on doing deadlifts right now. They’re beast. My heaviest exercise is the deadlift. I love the exercise. Doing dips never gets old for me! I have yet to do them with chains. I added the most muscle from actually doing a dips and chin up specialization program. There’s something about the lift that makes it king of all bodyweight exercises. Not many people can just get up there and do 20. Heck your average American can’t even do one! Lots of people choose not to use either the deadlift or dips because it’s just plain hard work! As we all know, people always want the easy way out, which is why you won’t see very many people doing these at the gym. It’s sad when I mention either of these exercises and people ask, “what’s that?” But, of course I HAVE to enlighten them!
Deadlift? Absolutely! One of my favourite exercises. When it comes to back health: once I had problems with my lower back, but it was totally my fault. Too rapid increase in weight lead to poorer form, and bad form wracked my back, not deadlift itself. Dips? I’d love to but right now I don’t have any eq. In some time I may buy rings…
I’ve been doing deadlifts for a month and a half now (just a beginner in strength trainning), and, to this day, I can’t complain about any injury or whatever.on the opposite, my back and legs are feel much more stronger (because I’m a beginner and without a coach, I’m extremely cautious about doing any movements with the proper technique: watching some videos showing, doing it without weights, using after that a moderate weight to warm-up and only then, I allow myself to do the reps with heavy weight. once I get used to the movement, I skip the “without weight” step). concerning dips, I do them only from time to time, because no matter how much I try to have a proper technique, the angles of my shoulder blades and my elbows make it really difficult and I need a huge focus. however, I found out that alternating weighted push-ups and dips works the best for me, without injuries, of course (as opposed to some shoulder and elbow injuries I got when I did only dips).
although I’m still inexperienced, I hope this will help others get different views on the subject.
I like both exercises. I’m an older guy (56) and I don’t need to move mountains so use a weight I can handle and rarely go to failure. What could be more functional than picking something heavy off the ground?
I find dips help me with all my presses, so I keep them in the mix.
Pete
Zach,
Solid advice. Any movement can be detrimental if used wrong or excessive. Gotta know the limits and the routine. Keep up the good work. The struggle is the strength.
Not sure if this really adds to the debate but Mark Rippetoes strength program goes along the lines of 1×5 deadlift and two sets of weighted dips(add weight when you can do 2 full sets)Basic stuff but seems a good balance of the benefits of each lift without the damage they can cause. But Mark is an advocate of good form and squats! His tips on good form are the best.
I think is a lifting atlas stones is both a squat and deadlift and everything else including fun.
I have a question what segusstoins would you give for a one arm dip (I am working for a one arm muscle up but without the kicking up part)
Dips sorted my shoulders out after an injury on the bench press!
I love doing deadlifts I like doing more of an Olympic style routine 15×1 or even 30×1 with about 80-85% of my one Rep Max. And with 20 second rest. As far as dips. I can. Do them all day long and not get anything out of them. I like doing fixed bar triceps extensions those are a lot more difficult than dips
HI Zack,
I try to do some form of Dradlifts and assisted bodyweight dips each week. I’ll be 66 next month am dealing with muscle
atrophy from age and side effects of the immunosuppressive meds I need to take (kidney transplant – 14th aniversary).
Deadlifts: std. barbell – bar and 90# warmup sets of 5 each and then 3 working sets of 10 @ 135 – 145#.
Romanian – bar (115#) or 2 45 – 50# db w. shrug.
Trap bar w. 45# plate either side
Dips: Had some BP related shoulder issues in past:
Assisted dips – 3 sets of 10
HS machine dip (90 – 160) as a finisher @ end of w/o
Keep up the great educational and inspiring work!
Elliott
Two of my all time favourite exercises. Absolutely love them! They are also great for displaying proportional strength, and mean that someone like me who is quite light can still move heavy weight and perform to a high level.
I have achieved a double bodyweight deadlift for 10 reps (and could do more) and a dip with nearly 100% weight on the belt and I have noticed that these are rare achievements even amongst people who can lift much more total weight than me.
They are also absolute physique changers – especially deadlifts – and will give you “the look” of someone who lifts.
My two favorite exercises. I had terrible posture which resulted in chronic neck pain. I credit deadlifts ,at least in part, for correcting my posture and eliminating my neck issues. If I was ever in the hypothetical scenario where I had to pick between dips and flat bench I would drop the bench in a heart beat, and If I could only ever do two exercises these would quite likely be them.
I am 52 years old, 5ft 11 and I weigh 140. I train for strength and I don’t have an interest in size. The dip and sumo deadlift superset is one of three superset combinations that I do once a week (the others are the front squat/chin up and the clean and push press. It can’t get any simpler than this and I’m as athletic and as nimble as men much younger than I. Chose based on what your goals are.